Episode 24
· 39:16
So we had very complex trading systems and routes that always existed, pre contact and since contact. But the other thing is that indigenous owned businesses actually contribute billions to today's economy. It's not that we don't exist, but just maybe not as visible.
Dr. Sonia Kang:Indigenous entrepreneurship has existed across Turtle Island long before settler colonization. But today, there are still so many myths about indigenous businesses, including the idea that indigenous people aren't entrepreneurs, that they rely on government handouts, and that they need to be taught how to build successful businesses. None of that is true. In fact, indigenous entrepreneurship is thriving, and it's rooted in long standing traditions of innovation, sustainability, and community care. In this episode, we're going to bust those myths and explore how indigenous ways of doing business can challenge and improve how we all think about entrepreneurship.
Dr. Sonia Kang:I'm doctor Sonia Kang, academic director at GATE.
Carmina Ravanera:And I'm Carmina Ravanera, senior research associate at GATE. This is such an important topic because Indigenous entrepreneurs are often left out of mainstream conversations and programs for entrepreneurship. And yet, as I heard from the experts I spoke to for this episode, Indigenous entrepreneurship is not only alive and well, it's been around long before Canada even existed.
Dr. Sonia Kang:Exactly. So let's get into it. Who did you speak to for this episode?
Carmina Ravanera:I spoke to doctor Jordyn Hrenyk and Sara Wolfe, both of whom we're lucky to have working with us here at GATE. I'll let them introduce themselves.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:Hi, everyone. My name is Jordyn. I'm Michif or Metis from Metis Nation Saskatchewan, but now I call Tkaronto or or Toronto home. I'm a postdoctoral researcher here at GATE at the Rotman School of Management.
Sara Wolfe:I'm Sara Wolfe, Anishinaabe. I'm a member of Brunswick House First Nation, which is in Treaty 9 in Northern Ontario. I have a background in health care, but I've also kind of worked in economic development and social finance, and I also work in data governance and data sovereignty.
Dr. Sonia Kang:So right off the bat, I think it's important to address the misconception that indigenous communities aren't involved in entrepreneurship at all. Why do you think this myth persists?
Carmina Ravanera:A lot of it comes down to stereotyping and racism. There are harmful and persistent misconceptions that indigenous people don't care about business or economic development or that they lack the skills, ambition, or capacity to be entrepreneurs.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:So it's something I think about a lot in the kind of work that I do. I've been working with indigenous entrepreneurs for over a decade now across, you know, many different kinds of of industries. And I think that myth or misconception does come up quite a bit when entrepreneurs are interacting with kind of, let's say, general public Canadians. And I think the perception or misperception, really, is that indigenous people in Canada and around North America and really around the world is that we're completely anti business. I think this is in part because indigenous people there's very few instances in which we are represented in Western media, for example.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:And but one of the main ways we do show up is when indigenous land defenders or activists are blocking illegal or unwanted development in their territories or when nations are refusing deals with, you know, extractive companies and and industries. So I think because of this and because of you know, that's the way indigenous people are usually seen, there's this assumption that indigenous people are wholesale against business of any kind and against development. And really, the reality is that many indigenous nations, indigenous individuals are very interested in and are actively involved in, you know, self employment, entrepreneurship, even large scale business, particularly when we talk about business as economic development. But we're really interested in business, you know, on our own terms, from our own values, and and our own perspectives.
Sara Wolfe:A lot of biases that exist about who indigenous peoples are, what we're what we do, what we're capable of doing, what we're interested in. And there's been a long history in Canadian society about that have that has separated indigenous peoples from mainstream. Right? There's been very concerted efforts to assimilate us. But in those assimilation practices that were reinforced by the education system, the justice system, the economic systems, etcetera, etcetera, there's there's not been any reciprocal learning about indigenous peoples, or there's only been education that places us in the past as people that needed to be saved.
Sara Wolfe:Right? And so those those mindsets have tended to persist as we kind of chip away at trying to kind of reverse some of those things. What that means about entrepreneurship is that there's this idea that we just don't lack that we don't have the skills to be entrepreneurs. Right? That we have, you know, too much reliance on kinda government handouts or that we're lazy or, like, these kind of myths that perpetuate about who indigenous peoples are kind of extend into the entrepreneurship space.
Sara Wolfe:You know, this thought that we're not innovative, that we don't know how to create or build something that could be sustainable or that we're too dependent on, like, handouts and grants or whatever that we don't know how to build a sustainable business. And so, like, the myths really do extend to, like, some of the kind of the racist biases that exist even just about indigenous peoples generally. And you'll find that in any kind of sector that you work in that we we tend to be in the mindsets of the mainstream kind of systems, all of those stereotypes that colonialism has perpetuated in their policies about to to try and assimilate us.
Dr. Sonia Kang:Colonial stereotypes and narratives that pit indigenous communities against Canada's economic development have really reinforced these false beliefs. But the truth is indigenous communities have always been engaged in entrepreneurship.
Carmina Ravanera:Yeah. And often in ways that are really innovative and community focused. Jordyn told me about two main models of Indigenous entrepreneurship. One, individual entrepreneurs running their own businesses, and two, community owned organizations connected to Indigenous governed economic development corporations. She also shared insights from her research on how Indigenous entrepreneurs do business differently in ways that challenge dominant business norms.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:So in my work, in my research, I work with a lot of self employed indigenous artists. And the way they approach, for example, community building in their markets is really, really different from what we see in mainstream markets. Their conception of competition is quite different, and the way they approach other people working in the same area of them is quite different. So oftentimes, indigenous entrepreneurs will really recognize the importance of things like peer learning, And they often go to really great lengths to build good friendships and good relationships with other people who are working in the same market as them. I think well, I know because I've taught entrepreneurship classes myself, but I think mainstream entrepreneurship, you know, principles or ideas about it is often that you have to, you know, be completely self reliant.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:You have to kind of do everything on your own, or else, you know, we see people seek out these kind of formal mentorship opportunities. That's kind of the two main ways people approach running their own business, and there's nothing wrong with those. But I think mentorship, while it's important and can be helpful to entrepreneurs, I've really just seen how peer relationships and peer networks can be really affirming and transformative. And I think mainstream entrepreneurs miss out a lot if they don't have those kind of peer networks that we see a lot of indigenous entrepreneurs creating. Because when you're working with peers, people in the same market as you, people who are going through similar issues as you, they often have a lot of time for each other.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:They're going. They're navigating the same kinds of decisions, and you can really learn together, especially when you're running, you know, a values aligned business or one that's really tied to cultural identity. It can be great just to talk with someone who really gets it, right, who understands kind of the tensions you might be holding. You know, how do I price my products so that I'm not pricing out my community members, but also not undercutting other people in the market, not underpaying myself or or taking advantage of my suppliers. How do I kind of balance all of these different things, which can be quite in conflict with each other?
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:So I think indigenous business owners really approach business from a community perspective. They're creating these kinds of organic peer networks that allow them to feel seen and and understood.
Dr. Sonia Kang:So instead of seeing similar businesses as competitors, they're seen as peers, as part of a network that can lift each other up. That's such a powerful reframe. It shows how business can be a tool for community building, not just individual profit.
Carmina Ravanera:Exactly. And Sara made a similar point about how peer networks support indigenous entrepreneurs and foster innovation.
Sara Wolfe:There are so many innovative ways indigenous entrepreneurs are approaching businesses and, you know, leveraging things like our Moccasin Telegraph. Right? And so how we promote our businesses is by using the biggest assets that we have, and our social networks is one of the ways that we're, you know, the most innovative, most creative, and it's one of our best assets. If you, you know, if you are an indigenous person, you tend to know a lot of other indigenous peoples, but across Turtle Island. Right?
Sara Wolfe:And and we call it our Moccasin telegraph, but, really, like, how we promote and advertise things is often through those kind of networks that we have. And so it's really fun to see how how things kind of trickle through. And then and then kind of by extension, our presence in social media and using social media as a tool has really become such an amazing way to see indigenous business owners really flourishing in kind of their marketing and promotion. I think I think that they're really leading and, you know, kind of leveraging that kind of that social network talent within the social media space. I could go on and on, but there's, like, a ton of crazy, awesome, amazing ways that they're kind of working together and co amplifying each other.
Sara Wolfe:Right? So you'll have, you know, businesses that are technically kind of in the same kind of market, same area, but they're maybe even competitors, but they'll co amplify. They'll work to kinda lift each other up.
Carmina Ravanera:Sara also emphasized that indigenous entrepreneurship is happening everywhere across all kinds of industries and geographies. Many indigenous entrepreneurs are intentionally aligning their businesses with cultural values and sustainability.
Sara Wolfe:But there are also a lot of these companies and other companies that are led by indigenous folks that are really kind of digging in and embracing kind of the culture and traditional practices and the worldviews, which are really amazing. Right? So what aligns with our culture, and how do we wanna approach business that might be different than the mainstream? Right? So finding unique ways that kinda kinda demonstrate those alignments to the culture is probably one of the one of the most exciting things I see in kind of emerging entrepreneurs coming out.
Sara Wolfe:So think about Cheekbone Beauty and her kind of alignment to the culture. Right? This identity piece, this scene, she, you she calls it her her beauty brand, a a love letter to youth. And so it's really around kind of reclaiming that pride in our in our culture and our identity. You see a lot of businesses that are also aligning to this idea of, like, the the sustainability practices.
Sara Wolfe:Right? So we've always, for millennia, known how to live sustainably on the land. We understand the the land, the rivers, the animals, the the trees, the forests, to be our relatives, to not be you know, for us not to be better than than them, but to be in relationship with them. And so this idea of, know, eco or sustainable that comes out from mainstream is actually just how we've always lived and how we've always done things. And so you do see a lot of indigenous businesses who are working within that space, because it aligns so deeply with our worldview to begin with.
Dr. Sonia Kang:That perspective of being in relationship with land, water, animals, and future generations is at the heart of what so many people today describe a sustainable business. But indigenous entrepreneurs have been practicing this for generations. There's so much to learn from their leadership in this space, but there are also a ton of systemic barriers to becoming an entrepreneur, especially if you're from an underrepresented group. And these barriers often contribute to indigenous entrepreneurs being less visible than they could be.
Carmina Ravanera:Absolutely. Jordyn talks about access to capital and funding as a major challenge and how it's a myth based on stereotypes that indigenous entrepreneurs just get handouts from the government to start their businesses.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:The one really important one, and it's actually kind of another myth, but it's this issues around funding. So a lot of the time in many facets of indigenous people's lives, kind of the general Canadian will assume we get things for free. We'll have access to grants that other people won't have. It'll be very easy for us to fund, you know, any ideas or or projects that we're working on, and that's really, really not the case. One really important way this challenge kind of emerges is for First Nations entrepreneurs, particularly those who work on reserve or who are living on reserve.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:You know, you can't use on reserve properties as collateral to secure a loan for a business, for example. And so that's one really important way that many, many Canadians would access start up funds for their business, particularly when we're talking about self employment and and small scale businesses. You can't access this kind of funding that most Canadians would be trying to access to start their business. And just in general, it can be quite difficult for indigenous and First Nations entrepreneurs, to access funding. That is definitely a major challenge that continues today.
Carmina Ravanera:Sara also broke this down using a super simple acronym, ABCD, a framework that captures the key barriers indigenous entrepreneurs face. A stands for access to capital, where intergenerational poverty, lack of credit, and limited access to collateral make it difficult to get funding. B stands for building capacity. And here, Sara pushes back on another myth, the idea that non indigenous people need to come in and quote unquote build capacity for indigenous entrepreneurs, when in fact that capacity already exists.
Sara Wolfe:B would be for building capacity. We often talk about kind of the poor educational achievements and lack of training and expertise indigenous peoples have. That's probably one of the biggest myths that exists out there is that we don't have the skills to be entrepreneurs. We've always been entrepreneurial, and there are some very deep experiences of being entrepreneurial within our community. And if we talk about building capacity, we also need to talk about building capacity of nonindigenous people and organizations and supports to understand what the distinct needs are and how to work with indigenous communities and indigenous peoples in meaningful ways because everyone will benefit.
Sara Wolfe:When we support indigenous peoples to thrive, then everyone benefits. Right? Whether it's through kind of, you know, the GDP and the kind of the larger kind of economic picture or even just having access to really great products and services that exist. Everyone gets to thrive when indigenous peoples do. So kind of building capacity of of nonindigenous kind of ecosystem supports or customers or whatever to really kind of understand and kind of build those competencies themselves is, I think, is just as important as, you know, supporting the distinct business needs and entrepreneurial skill needs that indigenous community members have or people have.
Dr. Sonia Kang:That reframing is so important. Too often, the narrative puts the burden on marginalized communities to fix themselves to gain access, whether that's in business, education, or leadership. But what if we flip that lens? What if we saw the system itself as needing to change? So what did the c and d stand for?
Sara Wolfe:C would be cultivating networks now. I already talked about how amazing the social networks that we have, but working on building those social networks outside of the indigenous community is another great way to help kind of think about what are some of the systemic barriers. Right? I think for a lot of entrepreneurs in mainstream, they get a lot of pro bono slash in kind from their kind of social networks. They have a lot of social capital, and they have they have some networks that can help support them.
Sara Wolfe:Right? So they have mentors kind of just inherently built into, my uncle was also a business owner or, you know, I have a a cousin who's a lawyer who can write up some of my, you know, template contracts for me or who can review something for me for free. We don't have those things kind of social networks, let alone those networks that can help to expand our kind of, you know, marketing potential and pathways and, you know, building mentorship or, you know, kind of beyond kind of the spaces that we're in. So we have to work a lot harder to get achieve the same kind of levels of success or, you know, expansion into other kind of spaces then nonindigenous entrepreneurs often have to face.
Sara Wolfe:And then d, it'd be driving interest. So how are we marketing beyond our own community? How do we get people interested in indigenous products and services by indigenous entrepreneurs? And how can mainstream kinda help to support that advancement of, you know, awareness by, you know, kind of broader Canadian society or the global society around the benefits and the, you know, the amazing things that indigenous kind of entrepreneurs are delivering.
Carmina Ravanera:On top of those, Sarah also pointed out geography as a major barrier. It's a myth that all indigenous people live on reserve or in remote communities, but for those who do, the costs of buying and selling products can be much higher, and market access can be limited. There's also a significant digital divide.
Sara Wolfe:There's a lot of communities that don't really have good digital access. Like, I've been staying as you know, this week, I've been staying, on on my First Nation community, kinda helping out with my mom with something, and there's barely any cell signal here. And I happen to have Wi Fi here in the house that I'm in because my auntie had Wi Fi, and so she's gonna let my mom use it. So this is the Wi Fi I'm using here now, but there's no cell signal. So if I, you know, didn't have that, I you know, how would I communicate with you?
Sara Wolfe:It's also really expensive to maintain cell phone and kind of connectivity and, you know, high speed. And so even in urban settings, sometimes the digital vibe can be hard. Right? Having kind of the technology can be expensive. And then the cost of all of the additional kind of applications for running businesses can be you know, all the subscription fees and whatnot can be really expensive.
Carmina Ravanera:And going back to the idea of values aligned business, Jordyn told me how hard it can be to run a business this way because it's often seen as the wrong way to be an entrepreneur.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:I found it can be really difficult for indigenous entrepreneurs to run a business that feels very values aligned, that allows them to kind of live out their traditional values and and and still kind of meet the demands of the marketplace because we're all operating in the same Western capitalist marketplace. And many indigenous entrepreneurs, in particular, want to run their business in a way that feels values aligned. Maybe they wanna operate on a small scale so that they can build, you know, meaningful relationships with customers and suppliers and and even their competitors, as I mentioned. But they're often taught that that's not the right way to run a business. They're kind of trying to having to devise these new business strategies and new approaches to business that feel right for them and and make sense for them in their context.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:But if they go out and try and seek any kind of business education or, you know, join most incubator programs or or things like that, they're kind of being taught that that's not the right way to approach business. And there's something called the the trader's dilemma, which is this kind of, I think, old economic theory that if an entrepreneur uses their business to kind of support their family or their community, they're gonna lose the business because people are gonna come up and ask them for loans and sweetheart deals and cutting deals and and things like that. And eventually, you know, the business won't be able to sustain. And in my research, I've actually found quite the opposite. I find that when an indigenous entrepreneur runs a business so that it acts like a good community member, so that the business itself acts like a good community member, other people in their communities, their customers, their competitors will support it.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:Right? It's not just, you know, doing good business or doing good through business can be good for business. It's it's often essential for these entrepreneurs to run their businesses in ways that they're supporting their community. They're thinking about their community. They're representing their community, in a good way because that is what, attracts their customers.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:That's what people want to support.
Dr. Sonia Kang:I think this really points to how narrow and limiting our mainstream understanding of business has become. Business can be about community. It can be about values. But when those things are dismissed as unprofessional or unprofitable, we lose out, not just morally, but economically too.
Carmina Ravanera:And both Sara and Jordyn emphasized that despite these systemic barriers and biases, indigenous entrepreneurs are finding ways to thrive. For example, there are initiatives like indigenous financial institutes or IFIs, which provide funding and support without the discrimination that often comes from mainstream banks. And there are initiatives like Raven Indigenous Capital Partners, a venture capital firm specifically focused on investing in indigenous led businesses. But even with these supports, the barriers we've talked about still exist.
Dr. Sonia Kang:So how do we shift the broader entrepreneurship ecosystem to be more fair, inclusive, and supportive of indigenous entrepreneurs?
Carmina Ravanera:It really starts with rethinking and unlearning who we see as business experts and unlearning how colonialism has shaped our assumptions about what entrepreneurship looks like. Let's hear what Jordan and Sarah had to say.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:Very often, indigenous business expertise, our teachings, our traditional teachings are kind of discounted, and not thought of as business expertise. And a more supportive ecosystem would not only accept those things as, you know, valid alternative approaches to business, but would really hold them up as good ways of doing business for anyone. You know, indigenous peoples have had economies that are much older than Canada, have been functioning, you know, for thousands of years. We've had trade relationships from the Arctic down to South America, and those economies functioned off of having good relations, not having, you know, these arm's length transactions, but really getting to know the other communities, the other businesses, the other people that you're working with. And so I think, yeah, these more a more supportive ecosystem would kind of support those relationships and really acknowledge indigenous expertise in business so that people aren't being dissuaded from maybe their natural inclinations to, you know, bring their values into their business.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:For example, I think business schools like Rotman and and others around the country can be part of that process if they wanna be, but it would mean recognizing and really affirming, you know, multiple measures of business success beyond financial success. It would mean taking seriously indigenous teachings and allowing those teachings to be, you know, fundamental models of business instead of competitive strategic models. So I just really urge anyone who's interested in in business to look at the way that indigenous entrepreneurs run their businesses, look at the way that these entrepreneurs are are kind of finding ways to benefit everyone who's connected to their business, their suppliers, their customers, their competitors, and see that for the positive example that it is. I think indigenous or know indigenous entrepreneurs and business leaders have actually a lot to teach mainstream business leaders in Canada. And for too often, it's kind of been assumed the opposite, that mainstream Canadians should come into indigenous communities and and teach community members about business.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:But I think we actually have quite a lot to teach.
Sara Wolfe:Well, continuing to have the mainstream ecosystem do the work that they need to do to learn about kind of the indigenous histories, indigenous rights, and indigenous ways of knowing and being so that they can align to kind of different approaches to business that indigenous entrepreneurs that they may or may not want to support are interested in doing. Right? So not not working in assimilation mindsets where the idea is just getting more indigenous bodies to practice mainstream capitalistic type of businesses, but really taking that time to learn and understand that indigenous worldviews means that how we approach business may look different as well. Right? How are we connected to the land?
Sara Wolfe:How are we living sustainably? How are we creating businesses that are sustainable? How do we look at kind of building relationships and the importance of relationships and being relational first rather than transactional first? And how does that kinda play out in our businesses, in, like, what we're offering as business owners, but also even just in kind of the relational pieces as ecosystem supports and what that might look like. And, you know, how are we centering communities?
Sara Wolfe:Community is really important for us. It's like, you know, it's our connection to our communities that has allowed us to survive an attempted genocide in the first place. Right? And so our communities are incredibly important to us. And so how are we benefiting our communities, giving back to our communities, and prioritizing those things in our business to feelings?
Sara Wolfe:It's not always it's not always the most supported things if we're looking at kinda mainstream business approaches. Right? It's all about scale and growth. Where for us, it might be really important to hire people from our community to be giving back in, like, kind of b corp type ways to our community, ensuring that we use indigenous approaches to procurement for our supply chains, etcetera, etcetera. And so those are some of the nuanced ways indigenous businesses are really kind of pushing the envelope with mainstream to say, no.
Sara Wolfe:No. How we do business. It's not just what we you know, it's not just that we are doing business. It's also how we're doing business. It's actually probably better for the environment and for each other.
Sara Wolfe:But it's also, like, how do we ensure that we're looking at sustainability over profit and that we're taking care of each other and the land? And, like, those are like, again, those are things that the mainstream ecosystem will also benefit from. And so there's a lot to learn and just having some humility and recognizing that there is the there are those things to learn. There are those things to learn from indigenous business owners.
Dr. Sonia Kang:Both of their comments are really powerful. We really need to think about the intersections of colonialism with entrepreneurship and how the standard for business shouldn't be extractive and exploitative. We can and should learn from what indigenous groups have been practicing for a long time.
Carmina Ravanera:Sara also mentioned that changing perceptions around risk and who gets to take risks could make a big difference for indigenous entrepreneurs.
Sara Wolfe:Sometimes I laugh at the way that there's this approach to indigenous the idea of indigenous businesses as being too risky and that, you know, we don't have enough credit. We don't have enough skills. We don't have enough networks, whatever it is that makes an indigenous kind of business risky. And it's funny to me because in the mainstream, the rate of failure is also high. Right?
Sara Wolfe:There's a ton of risk across all businesses. Right? There's also a ton of opportunity. We don't know necessarily what's going to work. That's kind of one of the ways innovation works is, like, we try to experiment with new things.
Sara Wolfe:Sometimes it doesn't work, But sometimes it works amazingly, and we get, like, exponential growth. We often have this mindset with indigenous peoples that we cannot have failure because the stakes are too high. And if we fail at something, then our whole community fails. And so there's very little room to allow for innovation within our space. And so this is why there's this, like, almost, like, kind of streaming of, you know, mainstream practices that have been tried and tested and getting disindigenous bodies practicing mainstream Western capitalism and entrepreneurship models.
Sara Wolfe:And so we don't experiment because the the risk of experimenting and it not working feel like it's too high. But that's exactly what we actually need is to be more innovative and to be more experimental around what different models might look like and allowing the communities to develop and evolve these and to be supported to potentially fail. Because we know that when we innovate and experiment in really supportive ways, that the ones that do flourish will lift everyone, and we'll kind of balance out in the end.
Carmina Ravanera:That raises such an important question. Who does society allow to take risks and make mistakes? Some people are given chance after chance, while others are shut out after a single misstep or never even get in the door. And that double standard has real consequences, especially for indigenous entrepreneurs.
Dr. Sonia Kang:Exactly. Jordyn and Sara have helped us bust so many persistent myths in this episode. Let's recap just a few of them. First off, the myth that indigenous people and communities aren't involved in entrepreneurship. In reality, indigenous entrepreneurship is thriving, and it's existed for generations.
Dr. Sonia Kang:Second, the myth that indigenous entrepreneurs have easy access to government handouts. In fact, they face significant barriers to accessing capital. Some succeed despite those barriers, but there's still so much work to be done in terms of system change. And finally, it's a myth that non indigenous people are the only ones with business expertise. That idea is rooted in colonialism.
Dr. Sonia Kang:Indigenous people have long histories of economic leadership, innovation, and sustainability. To wrap things up, if I heard someone say or even imply that indigenous people aren't already entrepreneurs, what's one thing I could say to bust that myth?
Carmina Ravanera:Let's hear what our experts had to say.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:Statements like that may not actually be made in very good faith because indigenous businesses, including, you know, individual entrepreneurs and and nation owned economic development organizations, they've been fundamental partners in all of Canada's, you know, major industries basically forever. But if you do hear this myth and and you wanna say something in response, I would remind whoever is making that claim really to look at the history of this country. I think it's very important to remember that the Canadian Canadian economy has been built from its very, very beginnings all the way up till today. It's been built on exploiting indigenous plans and resources. Indigenous businesses and and entrepreneurs and traders have been here forever.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:You know, we were here before Canada itself, and and we're still here. And as I mentioned before, indigenous peoples have had functioning economies and trade relationships that spanned all of Turtle Island, all of North And South America. And there there were decades, you know, many decades in Canada where indigenous people were largely prevented from participating in Canada's economies to the fullest, but we never stopped entirely. And indigenous peoples and lands have always been fundamental to Canada's wealth. We just always haven't benefited from that in the same way that other Canadians have.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:But we've always been here as partners, as buyers, suppliers, and and business owners. And it's true that some nations and some individuals have been more or less involved in the mainstream Canadian economy, but we've always been running businesses. We've we've always been here. And if you don't see us, it may be because you don't really know who Indigenous people are. And so lately, Indigenous entrepreneurs and nations have been able to exercise kind of greater agency in the way we approach business relationships around Canada.
Dr. Jordyn Hrenyk:And over time, hopefully, our ways of doing business will kind of emerge as this positive example of how to run a business that, you know, respects the dignity of our relations, respects planetary boundaries, and is itself good community member.
Sara Wolfe:So seventh generation teaching is the teaching about looking back and looking ahead. Right? The context, the circumstances, the things that we see around us today are because of decisions that were made seven generations before us. And so understanding the history of things helps us to understand why things are the way they are today. But it also it speaks to our responsibilities as humans right now in this time because the decisions that we're making today will have their biggest impact seven generations into the future.
Sara Wolfe:Right? Our future ancestors. Ancestors we're never gonna meet. We don't meet our seventh generation ancestors, but yet still we have a responsibility to do what's best for them. For thousands of years, for millennia, indigenous peoples have been, you know, building and running very complex trading networks across Turtle Island and even intercontinental.
Sara Wolfe:They have found artifacts that are, you know, thousands of years old that have crossed over between North and South America or even from Africa or from other kind of, you know, countries and continents kind of beyond. And so we had very complex trading systems and routes that always existed precontact and and since contact. But the other thing is that indigenous owned businesses actually contribute billions to today's economy. Right? It's not that we don't exist, but just maybe not as visible to some of the mainstream kind of folks.
Sara Wolfe:And Carol Anne Hilton that wrote the book, you know, what would Canada look like in a $100,000,000,000 kind of a indigenous economy? Well, a lot of her research since that book has demonstrated that, actually, we are a $100,000,000,000 economy already. We need to be even reaching beyond that in terms of kind of our stretch goals because we are contributing substantially to this economy already in the order of the billions. And so I think if we're gonna be, you know, busting any myths and if, you know, listeners today have kind of any kind of way that they wanna challenge, it's just to say that we've always been, and we currently are, and we're growing at one of the fast you know, indigenous businesses are growing at one of the fastest rates in Canada, and so we are con going to continue to be a major part of Canada's economy. And this is an exciting time to kinda see and watch it flourish, but also to be supportive of it because, like I said, this is not around us versus them.
Sara Wolfe:And if we succeed, it means that no one else is succeeding. It it means that we all succeed, not just through better, you know, products and services, but also just like a stronger, safer, more peaceful, more prosperous economy when everyone in our country gets to thrive.
Dr. Sonia Kang:And with that, this myth is officially busted. This is the final episode of the season, but make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next. We'll be back soon with more myth busting insights.
Carmina Ravanera:In the meantime, happy myth busting. GATE's busted podcast is made possible by generous support from BMO. If you liked this episode, please rate and subscribe to busted. You can also find more thought provoking podcasts from the Institute for Gender and the Economy by searching GATE Audio wherever you find your podcasts. Thanks for tuning in.
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